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Ich muss gestehen, dass auch ich mir eingebildet hatte, ihr seid asiatisch. Ja, Sammakko.. One book I want to read but haven't yet is 'Die Geschichte der Bienen'; it's originally Norwegian and I read the first pages in both the English and the German translation and much preferred the German one. So if you don't speak Norwegian, you could read it in German. I'm sorry, I very rarely read German authors, so I can't recommend anything. Oder geht es etwa um den aktuellen deutschen Stil? Oder ziehst du vor, dich beim Lesen gleichzeitig mit Sprachenlernen zu befassen?

I don't really know why not. Mainly I just haven't found anything that made me want to read the book for a long time. When I read book reviews and think 'that sounds good, I'm going to try that', it's just never German, and the books displayed in book shops don't grab me either. I also mostly read translations in English, simply because the paperback versions are usually out earlier in English and hence cheaper all my Peter Hoegs are in English, for example - he's Danish.

But in the 'Bienen' case, I didn't like the English version. I sounded translated, I thought. I would always say "Ich lese wenig von deutschen Schriftstellern", but I think that is a matter of personal preference. Es geht mir genauso, Gibson. Irgendwas muss mich in diesem ersten Moment ansprechen.


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And a belated correction for Sammakko 60 : It's not 'at second thought', it's 'on second thoughts' at least in BE. Most of these books are written by German authors:. Hm, I thought this was about contemporary literature I found this little book many years ago somewhere in the library of a young man who had gone to the US to study and who had allowed me to live in his room meanwhile.


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So it was pure coincidence that I came across it, but I just couldn't put it down any more and it really touched me. There were a lot of other books, by the way, e. So it wasn't that I had just been starved for "anything to read". I recently saw an exhibition with pictures from Emil Nolde and decided to re-read it - it's about Nolde whose pictures were classified as " entartete Kunst " in the Third Reich.

It is a very good novel as such - but more than questionable since it whitewashes Nolde who in fact was very, very brown. Er war ein entschiedener Antisemit. Und das Malverbot? I must admit that reading it gave me the creeps. Maybe it is interesting or even fun for the ENS to read, as it does give a great example on how to address a topic in two completely different styles.

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However, I can't deny that the simple version just sounds really "dim-witted" to me. Is there really anyone who profits from that? Is a person who does not understand the "standard" version of this text likely to be interested in the efficiency of our public health care system when it comes to orthodontics? Anyhow - that kind of phrasing always reminds me of Die Sendung mit der Maus , the true masters of explaining complicated things in simple language or not using words at all. Just look at that short clip about advanced conflict management Collins schreibt dazu: If you describe someone as dim-witted, you are saying in quite an unkind way that you do not think they are very clever.


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Das sind. Und solange das nicht der Fall ist, finde ich es gut, dass mehr Texte in Leichter Sprache geschrieben werden. Man kann auch sagen: Sie haben eine Chance auf mehr Teilhabe. Niemand muss Texte in Leichter Sprache lesen. Ich denke so wie du, Amy.. Es ist etwas Elegantes an 'Einfachheit der Bedienung'.. Na ja.. Ich stelle mich irgendwo in die Mitte I doubt that the desire to intimidate is a frequent motivation behind texts that at first look appear complicated. Drawing on my own experience from engineering, I think the desired effect is often precision, even though that goal may not always be achieved and there may be undesirable side effects such as obfuscation.

Concise writing takes a significantly amount of time and considerable practice. Not every writer has that practice or can afford to spend the necessary amount of time. What applies to scientific or engineering texts similarly applies to legal matters. I learned to decipher patent language, or patentese, to some degree.

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While patentese uses normal English words, it is often difficult for a layperson to understand what it is saying. There is a reason patents use very specific words and language constructs: to deliver optimal protection of intellectual property by eliminating ambiguity. It is just the same with the tax code. But when tax preparation software asks a user questions based on that tax code, it is at times almost impossible for a layperson to decide what a particular sequence of words means that is, what is their semantics even though the individual words are easily understood.

Sometimes my wife and I debate it for a while and then just use our best guess as to what we think the software might be asking about, hoping we didn't commit any grave mistake for which the IRS will ding us later.

I find the writings of certain forum participants on LEO sometimes difficult to understand because as language professionals they naturally use domain-specific terminology and refer to linguistic or literary concepts that I am not sufficiently familiar with. This often, but not always, motivates me to re- acquaint myself with them. What I am missing in the debate here is the aesthetics of it. Complex language can be beautiful Thomas Mann! My personal fear is that Leichte Sprache will eventually be another battlefield of political correctness, and that the users of beautifully complex language will be ostracised.

What I dislike specifically about the example given is that it is not just 'simple', but to me it seems clearly tendentious. I do not want to defend orthodontists by all means. I hated my own with passion and he is, in fact, the only person I ever bit.

But it would be an egregious lie to say that "nobody actually knows what he did". He took his time to explain in all detail what he wanted to do and why.

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It is a huge difference if no proper statistics are being made, or if "nobody knows what they actually do". I fully agree that a bit more of "simple" language should be available e. The solution usually will be to have somebody who takes the time to explain it to you - specifically for you, and not just a general approach that will, hopefully, somehow work for everyone no matter what their problem or impairment may be. When I get a letter from an insurance that makes me wonder, I call them.

When my neighbours get any formal letter, they take it to me. My grandmother who had been declared legally incapable many years before she died would read and quote from the newspaper till the very end. She would have put down a newspaper written in simple language with disgust. While I wholeheartedly agree that we must strive to include as many people as possible, I am afraid I doubt that simple language is as strong a tool as the website "Leidmedien" suggests.

And I feel that there is a huge potential of both losing crucial information and of misusing it - be it the "battlefield for political correctness" I hadn't thought of that yet or simply subliminal propaganda as a result of an oversimplified, patronising style. Goldammer: That sounds great and I clearly see the beauty and the benefit in projects like this!

Offering a variety doesn't mean di s criminating against what was there first. Ein Beispiel: auf der Heimfahrt bin ich nicht direkt gefahren, sondern kreuz und quer durch die Landschaft. Ich sah zweimal hin. Da musste ich lachen. Aussetzen requires dative here. So it is " Yesterday I got to watch some young falcons while getting some milk from the farm. Quite funny to see their attempts to bring their wing movements in order.

One almost hit me after he missend the entrance to the nest. I like pigs, but I always think they look like slightly overweight ladies dressed up: a rather rotund body tottering on high heels.

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Amy, can you navigate by the sun? That wouldn't help me at all, and espially not on a winding road that keeps changing direction. I'm impressed. And was it you who asked about the blood moon? Yes, I saw it and thought it was very beautiful. Bit pale because it was overcast, but still. Kept coming back to look, and when the 'normal' colour began to take over again, you suddenly had a really 3-dimensional image. It looked like a ball, not like a disc, for once. I remember a thread here somewhere about 'Die Vermessung der Welt' and seem to remember that , interestingly, most of the men liked it and most of the women not so much.

So you need to be in touch with your inner male to like it ;-. I didn't manage to see the red moon, either I was too impatient or there were too many clouds or I looked out of the wrong window. But I did like the Kehlmann book a lot, so obviously I was in touch with my inner male at the time But the time before, when there was this partial eclipse of a blue full super whatever moon I was pretty sick and awake at am because I was feeling miserable and needed more pain meds I grabbed a couple of blankets, a hot water bottle and moved into the nearby vineyards, curled up and watched the moon.

RE Die Vermessung der Welt - My mother liked the book at lot and gave it to our male neighbour, who did not like it. I don't want to go into detail about their inner males and females, though!